Author Topic: hardest band/song to cover  (Read 550 times)

Offline Turk

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2010, 01:15:12 AM »
Those musicians don't exist much these days because people worship hacks like Kurt Cobain and Bradley Nowell so that's what kids aspire to.
Like this.  This tells so much more about you than you think it does.
Brad Nowell was a rip off artist. His songs are all covers of Motown and reggae songs. There is nothing special about him other than his early death, same with Kurt Cobain. If they had kept living they'd just be another washed up musician.

Fuggem.

Offline Turk

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2010, 01:18:32 AM »
Do you want my real list? My real list of musicians people can't cover? That list was people folks might recognize.
The real list?

Hermeto Pascoal (Seriously, do a bunch of acid before you try)
Buena Vista Social Club (Some can try, but you won't get close to the original)
Ladysmith Black Mambazo (That mix of voices is so special no one can touch it, even they don't replace members because it would ruin the sound)
Miles Davis (The Live Evil days, not Seven Steps to Heaven or Kind of Blue)
Fuggem.

Offline Tomatostic

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2010, 08:34:54 AM »
Those musicians don't exist much these days because people worship hacks like Kurt Cobain and Bradley Nowell so that's what kids aspire to.
Like this.  This tells so much more about you than you think it does.
Brad Nowell was a rip off artist. His songs are all covers of Motown and reggae songs. There is nothing special about him other than his early death, same with Kurt Cobain. If they had kept living they'd just be another washed up musician.
Not what I meant; your perspective seems to be a bit skewed.  There's no particular shortage of educated musicians, they're just generally doing shit more financially stable than playing in a band.  If they do have bands they tend to be low-key affairs.  Nowell and Cobain are irrelevant because any musician who is serious about their music wouldn't limit themselves to mainstream music, and those that do limit themselves are white noise that has always been a part of the music scene and always will be.  Most important, though, is that rock bands are rarely the domain of educated musicians and radio is rarely the domain of good rock bands.

It sounds like you're that type of musician that knows enough about music to have confidence in your claims but not enough to realize why they're wrong.
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Offline Robo

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 12:03:56 PM »

Dave Matthews Band (Seriously, the drummers can never hang and the lead singer always tries to sound exactly like Dave).

The real reason no one should cover Dave Matthews is because Dave Matthews fucking sucks the shit directly from the musical world's asshole.












what i'm trying to say is Dave Matthews is not my favorite musician.

Offline Tomatostic

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 01:35:51 PM »
It sounds like you're that type of musician that knows enough about music to have confidence in your claims but not enough to realize why they're wrong.
btw I understand that this statement is pretty much inherently hypocritical buuuuuuuuut
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Offline LunarNewYear

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2010, 02:16:55 PM »
It sounds like you're that type of musician that knows enough about music to have confidence in your claims but not enough to realize why they're wrong.
btw I understand that this statement is pretty much inherently hypocritical buuuuuuuuut

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Faith, we face Joshua Quince and the Irishman this very Saturday.
Saturday! Thrice I made him to know that I roll not on Saturday.
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Offline Turk

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2010, 02:47:53 PM »
Those musicians don't exist much these days because people worship hacks like Kurt Cobain and Bradley Nowell so that's what kids aspire to.
Like this.  This tells so much more about you than you think it does.
Brad Nowell was a rip off artist. His songs are all covers of Motown and reggae songs. There is nothing special about him other than his early death, same with Kurt Cobain. If they had kept living they'd just be another washed up musician.
Not what I meant; your perspective seems to be a bit skewed.  There's no particular shortage of educated musicians, they're just generally doing shit more financially stable than playing in a band.  If they do have bands they tend to be low-key affairs.  Nowell and Cobain are irrelevant because any musician who is serious about their music wouldn't limit themselves to mainstream music, and those that do limit themselves are white noise that has always been a part of the music scene and always will be.  Most important, though, is that rock bands are rarely the domain of educated musicians and radio is rarely the domain of good rock bands.

It sounds like you're that type of musician that knows enough about music to have confidence in your claims but not enough to realize why they're wrong.
I think the point I was making is that talented and educated musicians are usually not the face on stage nor do they have the pocketbooks to go with it. This is frustrating. To know skilled musicians can be part of helping someone else make millions while they were left to rot (See the Funk Brothers). Instead, hacks (there are more than can be listed) make millions off of the talent of others, off the ignorance of the public and this in turn inspires young musicians to be mediocre rather than truly great. When people playing guitar want to be like Trey Anastasio rather than like Wes Montgomery, they limit their potential and really jip themselves of being great musicians. But I guess that's the way to go if you want to retire from music and not have to work at Burger King.

And there are no stable musician gigs. Not sure where you got that idea. I know many many GREAT musicians who hardly have any jobs I would call "stable." You might be able to call them "steady" but not "stable." Especially not in this economy. Those who do have a steady gig are few and far between and many people will never ever hear them play a note.

I used rock bands in my list because I don't think many people are going to know who the hell Hermeto Pascoal is. The sad fact is that these rock bands (HACKS) are the influence of young musicians. With music being largely cut out of schools you can bet that kids of the future won't give a shit about jazz or anything other than mainstream music.

And back to the REAL point, the bands I chose can only be covered by musicians with enough skill to alter their technique and style and sound to be able to play a cover song, which does happen because they have to pay their bills somehow. When hack musicians try to do these bands, they end up sounding like shit, because they don't have enough skill to adapt.

That's what makes a great musician. The ability to improvise, adapt, be versatile, listen and perform. I'd bet 1 in 1,000 musicians actually possess all of those skills, and that is being generous.
Fuggem.

Offline Tomatostic

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2010, 04:46:00 PM »
Lemme begin my reply by saying that college trained musicians don't really get 'gigs', they get 'jobs'.  Music is not limited to creative expression.
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Offline Tomatostic

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2010, 05:24:33 PM »
I guess I could sum up my opposition by just saying that everything you wrote there just sounds like doomsaying.  It's not like Berklee or MSM is lacking in students.  That whole 'good musicians get sidelined while shitty ones get rich' spiel has been in use since the 50s; it's what happens whenever an art form meets a business strategy.

There's still kids listening to Wes Montgomery and there's still amazing bands out there.  Given the ridiculous amount of resources out there today for bands, thinking that there's some drought of good musicianship is as much a lack of awareness on your part as it is a failing of society.

Even beyond all that, people like Cobain and Nowell do serve a function; they introduce various genres to the mainstream so that budding musicians can get exposed to, and choose to pursue, a multitude of sounds.
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Offline Tomatostic

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2010, 05:34:19 PM »
And this focus on virtuosity muddies the waters since there's way more to music than sheer skill.  Bands like Slint or Scratch Acid aren't the most technically capable bands, but they expand the measures of musicality and allow for a more free emotional and artistic expression.
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Offline LunarNewYear

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2010, 06:20:26 PM »
There's still kids listening to Wes Montgomery and there's still amazing bands out there.  Given the ridiculous amount of resources out there today for bands, thinking that there's some drought of good musicianship is as much a lack of awareness on your part as it is a failing of society.

In support of this point, let me say: Hell, man, Molly Lewis has made a career for herself, including CD sales and concert gigs, via the simple expedient of putting up YouTube videos of herself playing, and by entering contests.
Donald, hold thy tongue—no, stay, I err. When do they set our match of open air?
Faith, we face Joshua Quince and the Irishman this very Saturday.
Saturday! Thrice I made him to know that I roll not on Saturday.
But posted it be; what’s done cannot be undone.
They shall unpost it, by my life!

Offline CommunistPenguin

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2010, 07:03:53 PM »
And this focus on virtuosity muddies the waters since there's way more to music than sheer skill.  Bands like Slint or Scratch Acid aren't the most technically capable bands, but they expand the measures of musicality and allow for a more free emotional and artistic expression.

wasnt that the main point of early punk rock?

Offline Nickis

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2010, 07:49:36 PM »
Dynamite Hack made Easy E better.
What unfortunate day's events are not made gladder by cake?

Offline Tomatostic

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2010, 08:48:27 PM »
And this focus on virtuosity muddies the waters since there's way more to music than sheer skill.  Bands like Slint or Scratch Acid aren't the most technically capable bands, but they expand the measures of musicality and allow for a more free emotional and artistic expression.

wasnt that the main point of early punk rock?
Basically
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Offline Turk

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2010, 02:41:59 AM »
Isn't this about what bands are difficult to cover? Things got side tracked because I had a side comment that was over analyzed.

I had a list. I made comments about it because I believed that only skilled musicians could successfully cover any kind of music.

Do you honestly think someone like Johnny Rotten could do a good cover of someone like Prince? Maybe if he wanted to be funny and ironic, but not as a serious musician.

Ultimately, if you want to cover the artists people name as difficult to cover, you need to find experienced, educated, well trained musicians, because being a "Jack White" on a band stand with a bunch of "Vinnie Colaiutas" about to play a Tower of Power tune won't help you one bit. Jack White sure inspires a lot of kids to play music be he also inspires them to be totally lame and wear tight pants and make up and shit, rather than Bach and Freddie Green. That bothers me. It might be okay with other but I want musicians to be excellent, not mediocre and flashy.
That's not to say I don't listen to some mediocre musicians. I like all kinds of music and see the value in everything but when it comes down to it I would take one incredible musician over four mediocre ones any day of the week.

I'd love to hear a good cover of Point of No (Know) Return by Kansas. That would be a tough one to pull off with mediocre musicians.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 02:48:12 AM by Turk »
Fuggem.

Offline Tomatostic

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2010, 10:52:37 AM »
but this topic isn't as interesting as the side conversation
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Offline LunarNewYear

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2010, 11:39:39 AM »
but this topic isn't as interesting as the side conversation

The underlying mechanic of all thread-drift.
Donald, hold thy tongue—no, stay, I err. When do they set our match of open air?
Faith, we face Joshua Quince and the Irishman this very Saturday.
Saturday! Thrice I made him to know that I roll not on Saturday.
But posted it be; what’s done cannot be undone.
They shall unpost it, by my life!

Online TorqumadaCOH

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Re: hardest band/song to cover
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2010, 07:13:49 PM »
Madness takes it's toll.  Please have exact change.

Offline Turk

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Fuggem.